Lewis said on a similar matter: There is no sense in talking of becoming better if better means simply what we are becomingit is like congratulating yourself on reaching your destination and defining destination as the place you have reached.. For the Christian who believes in a transcendent God, he can offer no such evidence; to produce material evidence for God is, ironically, to disprove a transcendent God and cast out faith. This is more "science vs wilful ignorance" and Nye does a pretty good job of showing why being wilfully ignorant is a bad idea. To be fair, the same goes with most Christian apologists. In the 21st century, the cowardice associated with atheism has become so obvious that it is making newspaper headlines. God is not all-powerful if there is something He cannot do. And this is, basically, Christian vs Atheist debates, both sides trying to be right but actually accepting other people's arguments, accepting "you're wrong" judgment is technically impossible, since both planets are made from different stuff, and their cores are out of different material, they're not compatible one with another. We will not discover anything that harms Christian theism by thinking logically and by looking at the evidence. The Roman Empire was not known for its stupidity. I like the topic; it was very well moderated; and it has Steve Novella and Sean Carroll. features world-class thinkers across the religious and non-religious communities. Copyright 2022 The Gospel Coalition, INC. All Rights Reserved. God is the weirdo, not me. r/DebateAnAtheist is dedicated to discovering what is true, real, and useful by using debate to ascertain . "I guess I don't believe in God either, at least not in any concrete way," Mason said pensively during her allotted 15-minute response time. That leaves about 18 percent who attend yearly or more, which is six times the rate of atheists and three times the rate of agnostics. Ultimately one has to agree that God will decide that question and many who think they are will be found not to be. Atheism literally means, "without god.". :) During the rebuttal session, Craig took issue with what he felt was Hitchens' failure to provide reasons for how atheists can decide what is moral or immoral. You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world. About Community. It seems only natural that if the advent of Christ was real it would permeate through the consciousness of mankind on some level regardless of their place in history. Christian Professor vs Atheist Student DEBATE. "I thought it was a great showing for belief in God, the Christian intellectual tradition, and Biola University as a global center for Christian thought," said debate host Craig Hazen, director of the M.A. Fernandes presents his cumulative case for the existence of God in support of his thesis that "it is more reasonable to be a theist than it is to be an atheist.". In 2019, they were 6.6 percent of the population, with agnostics adding another 6.2 percent. If one means, that which has come into existence, then surely God does not exist because God never came into existence. 01:07:28. You must signup or login to view or post comments on this article. Join thousands of others to get the FREEDOM POST newsletter for free, sent twice a week from The Christian Post. It is found in many variations but the concept is fairly consistent and goes something like this: Science has brought us to a point where we no longer need mythology to understand the world, and any questions which remain will eventually be answered through future scientific breakthroughs. The Folly of Debates. When you add the A prefix in front of it, it means "without.". That increase alone is larger than the entire share of atheists in 2019. This was a famous assessment of the matter by Soren Kierkegaard (dealing with the incarnation of Christ). This argument seems insurmountable on the surface, but is really a slow-pitch across the plate (if you dont mind a baseball analogy). We have a Pal Talk chat room dedicated to religious debate which is open 24/7. Throughout the history of the Church there have been many people like this who have sat differently to the central creedal claims, but in . Some have said this isn't a real debate - but it definitely shows how idiotic presuppositionalism is. God cannot lie, therefore God is not all-powerful. It's how we grow stronger. Even if the whole project of evolution as an account of our history was without serious objection, it would still not answer the problem of the origin of life, since the option of natural selection as an explanation is not available when considering how dead or inorganic matter becomes organic. The virgin birth of Christ was profound and of paramount concern to the ancients precisely because they understood that conception was impossible without intercourse. And indeed, that is what we find. most of their arguments consist of science disproving the bible. The Big Bang is not an answer to origins but rather a description of the event by which everything came into being; i.e., its the description of a smoking gun, not the shooter. Jaden Netwig, a high school student from Long Beach, said the debate didn't change his mind on his atheist beliefs but said he was "still open to the possibility of God," reported Whittier Daily News. Answer (1 of 41): Absolutely. But this fact should not be surprising in the least, indeed if history had no similar stories it would be reason for concern. Debate with atheists here at http://www.shockofGod.com See more atheists losing in debate below like Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Matt . The debate was sponsored by the Biola Student Association as well as the Christian Apologetics department at Biola University. The responses (if there are any) will demonstrate the current state of atheist vs. Christian banter. This is one of the more peculiar arguments Ive ever come across. One should expect to find mankind replicating these stories, found in their own visions and dreams, again and again throughout history. . If the reader is interested to hear more on this topic follow this linkfor a fuller discussion. He said that it was Craig who must prove the existence of God while he can take the role of the skeptic and doubt such a being exists. Instead, one finds myths created intentionally for children, for point making, or for whatever. We're taught the difference between right and wrong, good and evil. Because He wills to be honest. I would assume that there is such a thing as truth. Most of the 'regulars' are atheists/agnostics and we have formed a tightnit community.we support one another and challenge both Christians and Muslims (as well as people of other religions) who come into our room. Those who use this argument against Christianity simply fail to grasp what . 6. God is God precisely because He does not have a creator. Dissension and bickering are problems, but open, moderated, polite debates where various points are presented, defended, and cross-examined can be helpful. Also, I will not respond to rude posts. This argument is appealing because it pretends to wholly dismiss peoples reasoning capabilities based on their environmental influences in childhood. etc, ad infinitum. Hello all, I used to be an Atheist a long time ago, now I'm a Christian. When one honestly assesses the Judeo-Christian doctrine of God he will find multiple thousands of years of human testimony and religious development; he will find martyrs enduring the most horrific trauma in defense of the faith; he will find accounts in religious texts with historical and geographical corroboration; etc (these fact are of course not proofs, but rather evidences that elicit strong consideration). This is actually a really good argument against certain Protestant sects (Ive used it myself on numerous occasions), but it has no traction with the Orthodox Christian faith. He could just as easily will to not exist. Answer (1 of 94): I lost a debate to a Christian teacher when I, the avid dinosaur enthusiast, was six years old. A neurosurgeon's ten proofs for the existence of God. This sub is a curated community designed specifically for rational debates about Christian subjects. The two were surprised to find themselves in agreement on the inspiration of Scripture, the . Craig, a Biola professor and one of the world's leading philosophers of religion, claimed in opening remarks that there is no good argument that atheism is true but that there are good arguments that theism is true. The fact that there is suffering and death is the strongest argument against the belief in an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving God. Christianity arose in one of the most highly advanced civilizations in human history. Thou Shalt Give Thy Post a Useful and Descriptive Title. President Bidenalong with millions of churchgoersthinks marijuana isnt a dangerous drug. Hitchens, part of the movement of "new atheists" or "militant atheists" who seek to eliminate religion, said he didn't have to prove God didn't exist. That might sound crazy. Why does He not lie? There is no evidence for Gods existence. All are welcomed to join us! At one point, the debate moved to the question of whether man can have meaning in life apart from God. The Father sacrificed His own Son in order to destroy death with His life; not to assuage His wrath, but to heal; not to protect mankind from His fury, but to unite mankind to His love. The Orthodox doctrine of God is much different. But imagine if the only story of a messianic virgin birth, death, and resurrection were contained in the New Testament. The old saying is true: the facts do not determine the argument, the argument determines the facts. So, the initial criticism is sound, but it is subversive to the atheists staging ground. What does one mean by existence? I write very little in the area of Christian vs. atheist apologetics, and for good reason. Is Evangelical a Historical, Theological, or Political Identity? Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress. Devised by an atheist, it is generally a useful guide for how both sides should engage. 6. Christians only believe in Christianity because they were born in a Christian culture. $13.23 13 Used from $2.65 8 New from $9.44. Its strawman argumentation at its worst. And theres one other question on which nothing in particulars look different from their atheist and agnostic cousins: how important is religion in your life? Just 38 percent say that religion has no importance in their lives, and only a quarter say that it is not too important.. As an ex-Muslim, I'm so angry at other people on the left for not seeing their hypocrisy when it comes to Islam and Christianity. Lets start by talking about who the nones actually are. Throughout the debate, Craig, who authored Resaonable Faith, challenged Hitchens to refute his five points and provide positive evidence that it is irrational to hold a belief that God exists. We are non-political group of all religions and non-religious people. Editors and translators work together towards one goal: to make our four websites possible - I'm not an atheist, nor do I presume to speak for them, but given that no one has taken the bait, I'll propose a response to your question. In addition to the audience present at Purdue University in Indiana, 9,594 online viewers tuned in . We are Atheists, Theists, or, Others . Join us, as guests such as Jordan B . Most people today get their ethics from their culture. Thus the Christian story is a myth like the rest. Christian's only believe in Christianity because they were born in a Christian culture. He always was; He is eternal. One of the largest religious message boards on the social-media website Reddit is simply called Debate an Atheist. Its filled with exactly the kind of content youd expect. Some conversations quickly devolve into name-calling and petty insults. Nearly everything the Christian lays eyes on is proof of Gods existence because he sees the handiwork of God all around him in creation. Obviously, no one is irredeemable, and evangelicals who embrace the Great Commission should always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you (1 Pet. 9. The Big Conversation video series from Premier Unbelievable? A God who allows so much suffering and death can be nothing but evil. The argument takes as its presupposition that good and evil are real; that there is an ultimate standard of good and evil that supersedes mere fanciful ideas about what is good and evil at a given time in our ethical evolution, as it were. He said he has yet to discover good actions a person of faith might undertake that he cannot. i'm assuming u believe u have logic right, are u an atheist BTW? Craig said that without objective morality being rooted in God, man is left with subjective relativism. An Islam Christian Debate: Part 1. evangelist | 3 Views. There is no need for ignorant ancient myths anymore. He is the author of The Nones: Where They Came From, Who They Are, And Where They Are Going (Fortress Press, 2021). A cup of coffee? Again, we're dealing with our reasoning or intellectual capacities which reflect reality. The mission of Apologetics 315 is to provide educational resources for the defense of the Christian faith, with the goal of strengthening the faith of believers and engaging the questions and challenges of other worldviews. By providing an accessible and growing repository of teaching materials, as well as providing a means of networking within . More than 4,000 people attended a significant debate on Friday, Feb 1 between noted Christian theologian and Biola Talbot School of Theology professor William Lane Craig and atheist philosopher Alex Rosenberg. For the Christian it simply means that all power and authority are Gods. But this is hardly sufficient evidence in the court of atheist opinion, a court which presupposes that only what can be apprehended by the senses rightly qualifies as evidence. This will always be remembered, as George Pell essentially confesses to his crimes before ever having been charged (skip to 48:05), and ultimately digging his own grave when discussing preparing the "young English boys" in the middle of this debate. The debate was sponsored by the Biola Student Association as well as the Christian Apologetics department at Biola University. Even if there was a God, continued the outspoken atheist, it still wouldn't prove that this entity cared about man or answered prayers. Topics: 193 Posts: 1854 During the Christian Book Expo in Dallas last month, Craig and Hitchens took opposing sides in a panel examining "Does the God of Christianity Exist, and What Difference Does It Make?". Be respectful to what we believe - You obviously don't have to agree with Christianity to debate Christians. In terms of a living relationship with these things the ancients were far more advanced than we are today, and this relationship is essentially the nature of religious inquiry. If evangelical Christians take the Great Commission seriously, is debating an atheist a good use of their time, energy, and effort? A court of law provides innumerable examples of how two parties can possess the same collection of data, the same power of logic and reasoning, yet argue for completely different interpretations of the data. The fact that He doesnt is no commentary on whether He could. Jessica Airey February 15, 2013. Dr. Graham Oppy of Monash University is one such formidable philosophical atheist. When one considers the juvenile question, Can God create a rock so big that He cant lift it? this point becomes clear. But, while atheists and agnostics were nearly identical on church attendance, the divergence between them on religious importance is significant. The perennial debate between believers and non-believers has often focused upon the existence of the universe. Its as G.K. Chesterton once said, asking a Christian to prove Gods existence is like asking someone to prove the existence of civilization. Please make sure all fields are filled out. One of the largest religious message boards on the social-media website Reddit is simply called "Debate an Atheist.". I would rather watch paint dry. If you're here to ask a question, put that question in the title. The debate "Does God Exist?" Others are incredibly philosophical, showing a strong grasp of epistemology and teleology. But the claim that Christianity was viable in the ancient world because it was endorsed by wide spread ignorance is a profoundly ignorant idea. The idea is that people in general are so intellectually near-sighted that they cant see past their own upbringing, which, it would follow, would be an equally condemning commentary on atheism. My hope is that it will help expose some of the more obvious problems with them and maybe help both sidesatheists and Christians aliketo move on to more interesting debate material. 3:15). He is not just one messiah among many. as to ethics I can address dat afterwards but firstly wat is ur method? An Atheist Debate Reference. Why does God exist as Trinity? Heres why theyre wrong. Even more complicated is the matter of where matter came from. Spoiler Alert: The Brutally Honest Valedictorian's Christian school hosts surprise "atheist" encounter for its upper level high school students to strengthen. Atheists rely on science to explain the existence of life and the cosmos. 2) There is good evidence that Christianity is true. The same phenomenon is found within so-called Christian communities. 5. evangelist | 5 Views. Theism comes from the Greek word, "theos," which means "god.". where does logic come from? Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. This might be the most popular attempted smack-downs of religion in general today. It's filled with exactly the kind of content you'd expect. God is the antecedent of all things in creation and is eternal. Pastoral Advice, The Importance of Patiently Letting Down Our Nets in Obedience, Preparing the Way of the Lord in our Own Lives, Atheist Cold-Case Investigator Tried Disprove Christs Resurrection, Gets Converted Instead, Standing on the Lasting Platform of Faith, I Used to Laugh at the Church and Now I am Restoring a Temple an Unusual Story of an Artist, God Is Not a Slave to our Timetables: Lesson from Judith, Why was Cains Offering Rejected? Top 10 Most Common Atheist Arguments, and Why They Fail, It seems that many atheists today (some like to use the title New Atheists to distinguish them from the more profound philosophical atheists of yesteryear) have very little to add to the discussion. They only sought an argument for the sake of an argument, therefore Jesus said "Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not . Ancient man considered the virgin birth miraculous, i.e., impossible without divine action (and at the time most people scorned the idea), and the same could be said with every miraculous story in Scripture. The two men participated in a discussion about Dawkins' book on the BBC program "Re:Think," where Lord Jonathan Sacks accused . In comparison to some mass media, we do not make paid subscription. Avoiding overly esoteric arguments, they directly address issues such as religious experience, the Bible . However, I thought it would be fun to comment on the ten arguments I hear the most. Peterson and iek managed to find significant common ground. I devoted a separate article addressing this problem, but let me deal here with the problem inherent in the criticism itself. Those who use this charge as some sort of intellectual checkmate have simply failed to grasp what Christians understand as eternal. It is an argument usually levied once a theist posits that a first cause or an unmoved mover is required for the existence of the universe (a necessary Being upon which all other things exist by way of contingency). Functionality is temporarily unavailable. What I love about this well-worn atheist argument is that it actually serves to demonstrate how vastly different a belief in God is to these myths and imaginations. Oxford University Press, 2003. Also in terms of civility I do think civility forces people to think. He had Marxist leanings during the 1940s, but later became an outspoken anti-communist and also wrote extensively on the damage to Indian culture and heritage wrought by expansionist Islam and missionary activities of Christianity. 1) There's no good evidence that atheism is true. Not so fast. So I know or have rational knowledge by these reasoning faculties. Others are incredibly philosophical, showing a strong grasp of epistemology and teleology. In the words of renowned Christian Apologist and Philosopher Dr. William Lane Craig, Oppy is considered the most formidable atheist today, with Craig further writing "No one can pretend to [have] a successful theistic argument unless he has dealt with Oppy's criticisms first". But you do need to realize that if you, for example, insult Jesus our Savior, all you do is make yourself look bad, get people defensive, and make atheists, as a whole, look like obstreperous twits. weekly wall newspaper for churches, lectorium, photos, videos, hosting and servers. As far as where we come from, evolution has barely scratched the purely scientific surface of the matter. The Truth About Martin Luther, the Ninety-Five Theses, and the Castle Church Door. They claim that they can have morality without God and that the concept of a deity is . SO it depends on what you believe more, science or the bible. . Debating atheism vs theism is one of the healthiest things Christians can do on Quora. In my new book,The Nones: Where They Came From, Who They Are, and Where They Are Going, I provide empirical evidence that debating atheists has a very low return on investment. See also: Rebuttals to atheist arguments and Responding to atheists and Atheism debates The atheist Sam Harris quipped about William Lane . Science is fantastic if you want to know what gauge wire is compatible with a 20 amp electric charge, how agriculture works, what causes disease and how to cure it, and a million other things. But, this is a spurious claim. It was the epicenter of innovation and philosophical giants. If a person is closed minded to any subject, then there is no room for debate or evaluation of evidence or beliefs. Agnostics arent far behind, with 94 percent indicating they attend never or seldom.. To be fair, the same goes with most Christian apologists. At one time I would waste considerable time attempting to debate atheists and finally realized it was a waste of time. The argument is a bit involved, so for times sakes Ill just have to state it and leave it there. 10. "We've heard attacks upon religion, Christianity impugned, God impugned, Mother Teresa impugned, but we haven't heard any arguments that God does not exist," said Craig. But in reality, such an argument winds up further solidifying what Christianity means by calling God all-powerful. Let's look then at my first basic contention: there's no good evidence that atheism is true. Discussion flow chart for an atheist debating a Christian. As a Christian, on this forum, I am told that anyone that calls themselves a Christian has the right to do so. Debates can be good or bad. Atheists and Christians Debate Truth And Belief | Middle Ground. An argument based on strict logical word games can render the idea all-powerful, or omnipotent self-defeating. Acts 17:17, "So he was reasoning in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing .

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